I see...

[cosmo99]

I thought that if it was a theory then it was not a fact. I am not trying to say I am right and you are wrong. I am just saying that different people have different beliefs. I know that you don't agree with me and I certainly don't agree with you on this matter. All I am saying is that people should have a choice and just because science says that everything in the Bible and God is not real doesn't mean that it is not true. The Bible should be apart of learning.

[R13]

So if I "scientifically theorize" that black is white, then that makes it a fact?

I tend to at least somewhat agree with you on a whole lotta things man, but that is some faulty-arse logic if I've ever seen it.

No that's not what I'm saying at all, scientific theories aren't your everyday theories, they are rigorously tested before they can be considered a theory. It isn't just an idea, a scientific theory stands until proven wrong, it's not the other way around. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments - nothing has disproved it since Darwin came up with it 150 years ago.

People don't get that in science, a theory is always going to be a theory, unless proven wrong. It's tested constantly, because test of a theory is an attempt to falsify it, or to refute it. That has never happened with Evolution, it's actually only been solidified far beyond what Darwin originally proposed. The "it's just a theory" doesn't apply in science, other types of theories maybe just "ideas", it's not the case in science. Anyone think the Theory of Relativity is just an idea not backed up?

]All I am saying is that people should have a choice and just because science says that everything in the Bible and God is not real doesn't mean that it is not true. The Bible should be apart of learning.

They do have the choice, they can take their kid to church, teach it themselves or enroll them in a private Christian school...but they shouldn't expect everyone to pay for it in a public school, in a class that has no business in there. Science has nothing to say one way or the other about the existence of God or about people's spiritual beliefs, because it doesn't go with what the Bible or religious texts say, doesn't mean it's purpose is refute God.

[cosmo99]

okay then, the kids should have a choice in not having to learn about evolution without being punished in any sort of way.

[CoeburnCane]

Listen--I understand the difference between theory & fact--before ole CC decided to get Accounting/Economics degrees from UVAW, he started off as a double-major in Biology & Chemistry. I wanted to be a research microbiologist--I've logged plenty of laboratory time both in HS/college and professionally in an environmental lab. One of the first things you'll learn if you talk to a professor and/or researcher is that they DO NOT take theories as fact, and they don't teach/practice it that way. If you assume something as fact (unless 100% proven everytime/all the time), then you'll never be an unbiased scientist, and you'll never make any headway as far as new findings go.

Evolution is a theory, regardless of if it's not been fully debunked yet. You'd do well to treat it as such, if you claim to have such a scientific mind. If you've got your mind made up that it's a fact when it's not been proclaimed as such, then you're just as closed-minded as you claim those who believe in the Bible are.

[R13]

It is fact, both theory and fact, just like gravity is, like I said it isn't an everyday theory that someone pulled out of their arse. The word "fact" is different in science - A fact is hypothesis that is so firmly supported by evidence that we assume it is true, and act as if it were true - and scientific "theories" aren't just ideas as you know.

H.J. Muller - There is no sharp line between speculation, hypothesis, theory, principle, and fact, but only a difference along a sliding scale, in the degree of probability of the idea. When we say a thing is a fact, then, we only mean that its probability is an extremely high one: so high that we are not bothered by doubt about it and are ready to act accordingly. Now in this use of the term fact, the only proper one, evolution is a fact.


National Academy of Science - Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence is so strong.



"Fully debunked yet"? I don't think it's close to being debunked at all, evidence has only gotten stronger for it, a lot stronger. There's no missing link that will put it all together in an "Ohhhh okay, I get it now" moment, right now it stands as the way it happened according to science and has been like that for quite some time now.

[Monkeyhead]

LOL, I can't believe that you just argued with CC over his statement. You know you can't win that one don't you?

[Gotch]

Calling evolution a theory / fact has just started to appear in the "debate" scene within the last year or so. It is intended as a hush tactic, in other words it's intent is to imply that any dissenter is arguing that a scientific "fact" is false. Every year or so there is a new "talking point" thrown out for the young godless hoards to use in their desperate battle against the evil God fearing ones. *Overly dramatic on purpose*

Calling it a fact changes nothing about the gaping holes and lack of evidence to support it. You can call a cow patty a pancake but it would still not taste like you got it at the Waffle House. (at least not before 1am)

In fact evolutionists play a lot of word games, hide from actual scientific facts that don't support their faith and have a history of deceit and lies that date back to Darwin and have yet to abate.

The debate really boils down to this: Mutation exists, both sides agree upon that, the difference is that the evolutionist will point to a mutation and cry evolution, when in fact they are pointing at a mutated member of a known species. Mutation does not equal evolution, there is no evidence of that.

In fact there has been a colony of fruit flies that have been studied through many more generations than mankind and their direct ancestors ( according to evolutionary THEORY) have existed yet despite artificial efforts to create "evolution" all that has occurred is mutation. They are still fruit flies. (there is actually more than one such study)

Recently it was announced that "evolution" had been achieved in one of these colonies! So what was this major and dramatic change that supported a new species having arisen from the study? The fact that a group had been developed that couldn't mate the the others so they were saying that they were a new species of **********drum roll please***********FRUIT FLIES!!!!!!...........yep that was it.....difficult for me fully express just how underwhelmed I am by that.......goes back to deceit, and word play....and desperation.

[centennialdawg]

Let's put it this way r13: evolution can be your god, but my God is the One and the Only thing that has withstood all the trials of the world. We, as a nation, are becoming more and more Godless all the time, but there is still one constant in our existance. Look on any denomination of currency be it a coin or a bill and it will always say "In God we trust". The true believers know where the truth is.

[R13]

It's explained as fact and theory just like....GRAVITY! Dun, Dun, Dun! I guess it's just a ploy by those "gravity nuts" to try and trick us lol. It's considered fact because of the overwhelming evidence for it, theories are made up of them anyways, evolution has just been proven to be more so. There's no missing link that's going to connect everything, over time more and more data will be compiled like it has the past 150 years..but that's it. It's accepted as fact like we orbit around the sun is, I don't have to be launched into space to know it like most haven't that believe it, but it's not logical to accept it as the way it is.



And fruit flies are used because the reproduce so quickly right? Not because that's the only leg they are standing on.

[Gotch]

Fruit flies are used because generations add up in a hurry.

You can drop a monkey from a window and demonstrate gravity. You can't turn a monkey or common ancestor :8/ into Stephen Hawking, if you could you would then demonstrate evolution.

The comparison between gravity and evolution is also a current common "talking point", one that is "intellectually challenged" and is already starting to fall out a favor due to the obvious problems with it. Pretty easy to shoot holes in that comparison.